Army is not a job, it’s an involvement

A war veteran whose illustrious career in the Armed Forces entails participating in insurgency operations in Kargil and Nagaland, Brigadier Vinod Dutta has assumed the role of CEO at The Career Navigators. An authority on disaster management, he has been appointed in eminent positions at the National Institute of Disaster Management as a Senior Consultant and Secretary, Defence Crisis Management Group, MoD. The alumnus of IIM-Indore is putting his wide-ranging experience to good use by disseminating it as a corporate trainer, motivational speaker and sharing his views and analyses on defence and strategic affairs on news channels. In this interview with Corporate Citizen, Brigadier Dutta talks about life as a military man as well as a corporate personnel. He also talks about holding a place in the Limca Book of World Records…

Brigadier Vinod Dutta

Corporate Citizen: When did you first decide that you wanted to join the Armed Forces?

Brigadier Vinod Dutta: The Army runs in my blood. I am a third-generation officer from an army family. I saw my grandfather taking part in the World War and then my father fighting in 1962 and 1965. So, as a child, I was quite fascinated by the disciplined life, by the charm of the uniform, and the call of the duty to serve the nation. I joined the Armed Forces when I was nineteen, and by the age of twenty years, I was an officer with the rank of Second Lieutenant. So, I joined army pretty early in life and I was quite excited right from the word go.

CC: Tell us about some memorable moments from your career in the Army.

I had initially joined Infantry and I was posted at an insurgency area in Nagaland. I took part in various insurgency operations. We also took part in Operation Woodrose, which was about the insurgency in Punjab. I saw active insurgency operations in Kashmir. I have the singular honour of doing my schooling as well as my college from Kashmir. I have done three tenures in Kashmir. One can say that I have a lot of my roots there, both personally and professionally. I’d say the zenith of my career was when I took part in the Kargil operation.

CC: You have had your fair share of adventurous postings in the Army. What are the skills that you imbibed during such tenures?

Since I hold two MBAs and an MPhil in management and a PhD, I can call myself a “Thinking Soldier” and a “Scholar Soldier”. I always utilised my time well in the Army. A lot of people crib that they don’t get enough time in the Forces. Even when I was posted in the border areas, I would light a lantern in my post and study and do courses, either through correspondence or when I would come back. I would appear for the exams too.

A large number of test practices in the corporate world have been taken or have been culled out from the Army’s robust management practices, whether operational research or supply chain management, and many more. So, once I left the Army and I shifted to the corporate world, my Army experience helped me to a great extent. But as we all know, every transition has its own share of teething problems and you require some kind of acclimatisation in the process. When you join the Army, you have to do “Battle Inoculation”. Similarly, once you switch over, you have to do some kind of corporate inoculation. It was a seamless journey and one enjoys learning the new nuances of management from a corporate perspective.

CC: How is the corporate environment different from that of the Military?

Everyone has a scalar chain to report to. In the Army, they say that an officer is always 24x7 on duty and never late because either he is committed somewhere or engaged meaningfully.

CC: What are some officer-like qualities that you had in the Army that have propelled you forward in the corporate?

The Army focuses right from the day you appear for the SSB interview on fifteen officer-like qualities and they are about your physical courage, decision-making, mental robustness, organising capabilities, liveliness, zest to learn, leading people, having trust in people-that’s very important. You have to be cerebral at work, considerate towards subordinates, you have to be caring with your family (your Army unit is your family). In the Army, we don’t work for a 10 to 5 kind of a job. In fact, Army is not a job, it’s involvement.

"It was a tremendous opportunity in terms of learning because institutions like IIMs and IITs are think tanks. They have an ocean of opportunities and the most important thing is that once you connect with people and if you have an open mind, every day is a learning"

Brig. Vinod Dutta (centre) in the Valley for military operations

CC: When and how did you develop an interest in criminology?

If an army officer or a commanding officer finds someone violating any instructions under The Army Act, he can take action and can punish the guilty even to a death sentence for his grave offences. No other officer in India has these powers. They would either have administrative powers or executive powers or judiciary powers. All these three verticals in our Constitution are different.

An Army officer is the only officer who has all three-administrative, executive and judicial powers. There are a large number of Court Martials and Summary Court Martials, which an Army Officer has to do. This is why it dawned upon me that I should have a better understanding of the law that can be templated or which can be superimposed on the Military Law. The Army Act is also recognised by the Government of India. Then I realised that I must do a specialisation in Labour Laws and Criminology. Therefore, I took them as my special subjects.

CC: How did you develop an interest in a career in Disaster Management?

Disaster management and soldiers are synonymous. Whenever there is a crisis in the nation, there are only two people who are remembered-God and a soldier. The moment a crisis is sighted, soldiers assume an indispensable role.

When I joined the Army as a Second Lieutenant, right on the day after my dining-in party, I was told that there were seventy-five people and I was given a vehicle for a rescue operation when floods had ravaged Bihar. I told my senior officer that I didn’t know what to do and that I was clueless about my role. He said, “Buddy, no great shakes. The Junior Commissioned Officer knows the area, you just proceed, report your location and you will learn on the job.” So, that was the first brush I had with disaster management.

And then, I realised over a period of time that one has always been either a column commander or you have been looking after the area of responsibility because one of the secondary roles of an army officer is to help or to aid civil authorities in the case of a crisis. Therefore, I pursued my PhD in Disaster Management and I was fortunate that in Delhi, I held an assignment of Deputy Associate Chief as a Defence Staff which deals with disaster management both at the national as well as international level. I oversaw operations during the Nepal and Uttarakhand earthquake, Chennai floods and various other operations and attended a large number of seminars. I was the first officer to draft and conduct the first HADR (Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief) operations exercise with the US Army and the LEMOA, that is, Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement with the US Army. I got fairly good exposure and I always remember the lines of Sir Winston Churchill as I reminisce those times-‘Let no crises go waste.’

CC: When did you first decide that you wanted to take the corporate route?

There was a very interesting incident that set it off. I was invited by one of the IITs to deliver a lecture. I applied for clearance as I was in service at the time. I was told to submit my script. I told the authorities that I shall not be speaking on any military matter and would be speaking about management. By the time the clearance came, the event was over.

This happened a few times. This is when I realised that my interest lay in teaching. I feel that once I interact with youngsters, I get intellectually stimulated. I also feel that mentally and at heart, I am young and that I am doing progressively better.

Unfortunately, soon after I lost my mother and my father was all by himself. I was told that he was not too well and going by the true tradition of the Indian Army, I asked him about his health, he said all was alright. But I was told that he was not able to move and he had arthritis issues. So, that’s the time I realised that I had done enough as far the Army was concerned and that I needed to work in a place that was closer to home so that I could attend to him. I realised that I must hang my boots. In the meantime, I got a good offer from the corporate and in the next forty-eight hours, I was re-attired.

"A lot of people crib that they don’t get enough time in the Forces. Even when I was posted in the border areas, I would light a lantern in my post and study and do courses, either through correspondence or when I would come back"

Brig. Vinod Dutta in Bangkok for an
international conference

CC: Did you have any inhibitions about the transition?

My wife was equally worried when I told her that I was going to leave the Army. She asked me what I will do next. In a lighter vein, she even asked me what I was going to do with two hundred and fifty grams of degrees that I had had. I said, “I am going to use my degrees and I am not going to sit home. Either I will pick up a good job or I will read some books on the metro and come home only as per the Army timings.” Jokes apart, I got a really nice job.

CC: Tell us about your life as a student at the coveted IIM-Indore.

It was really nice. I must thank the Army for allowing me to join such a prestigious institution. It was a tremendous opportunity in terms of learning because institutions like IIMs and IITs are think tanks. They have an ocean of opportunities and the most important thing is that once you connect with people and if you have an open mind, every day is a learning. Learning is an upward curve. In fact, I loved the salubrious climate of Indore and the IIM itself is located at such a beautiful location. It was a great pleasure being there.

CC: Tell us about your role at the National Institute of Disaster Management (NIDM).

The National Institute of Disaster Management is the think tank at the national level and not to mention that it is a beautiful institution. The present Executive Director is a wonderful person and he has done yeoman service. It was a very good opportunity for me to give back to society, whatever I had learnt so far. As a senior consultant at the institute, I was practically applying the theories I had learnt as a student and everything that made up my studies.

There are a lot of studies, so many after-action reports, a lot many JPCs, a large number of studies are ordered and a large fortune is spent on them. I want to convey one thing: one should not focus on lessons learnt, rather, one should focus on lessons applied because when lessons are learnt everyone is wiser than the other. But once it comes to application, most of these studies gather dust.

CC: What inspired you to follow the path of a corporate trainer?

Teaching has always been my passion and I have been an instructor in the Army too, in India as well as abroad. So, when I switched over to corporate, I realised that facilitation in corporate training holds a lot of potential. My experience from the Army background came in quite handy at the time. So, I had my own brand. I have done sessions on leadership with the backdrop of the Army, leadership with the backdrop of Lord Ram and Saint Kabir. So, these are the icons from whom we can learn a lot and we can template their teachings and practices.

My first assignment was with Yatra.com. I conducted three residential workshops in a resort in Gurugram. Then I worked for Reliance and senior executives from the State Bank of India.

I have been working with Capgemini (Alchemy). I also take lectures at the Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration for the IAS foundation course. I also visit numerous officers from the Railways and other premiere organisations. I am also a teaching faculty at the Army War College and Defence Services Staff College.

CC: Coming from an army background, do people in the corporate look at you any differently?

You always carry that aura because people have a mental picture of you, that if you are an Army officer, you are an icon of discipline, trust and dedication. They really gave me a lot of respect and in return, I also made sure to never let them down.

CC: As a prominent face on the news channels and as the CEO of the Career Navigators, what does your daily routine look like?

In the Army, there is a saying that the busiest troops are the happiest troops. So, if you remain busy, you are the happiest person. I get up pretty early, at five am, go for a long walk, come back and read newspapers. I am really fond of newspapers. Then, I have my breakfast and after that, I have various training sessions. Almost every second or third day I have TV debates. You have to keep yourself abreast with the latest trends, whether national, international, geopolitical or geostrategic and live on-feed. So, that’s the routine on weekdays. As for weekends, I am an early bird and I go and play golf early morning.

"Teaching has always been my passion and I have been an instructor in the Army too, in India as well as abroad. When I switched over to corporate, I realised that facilitation in corporate training holds a lot of potential"

CC: Tell us about your project about the establishment of a training academy at Gwalior and your association with the Royal Government of Bhutan.

I have a special association with Gwalior because my father was posted as a Brigadier in the city. I also got posted as a Brigadier in Gwalior. The moment I got posted in the city, my father told me to pursue my PhD I followed my father’s advice and appeared for my PhD entrance exam. When I reached there, I was the Commandant of the NCC academy and I realised that the cadets were dependent upon the accommodation that was provided by the Army, which was nothing but dilapidated and unused barracks that the cadets were supposed to go and clean. There were also some snakebite cases etc. I also came to realise that the cadets used to sleep on the floor.

It was then that I decided that it was the last camp we were conducting here. And, thereafter, I am not going to allow anyone to firstly, sleep on the floor, and secondly, we had to make our own academy. The campus which I had was awesome but it was in the heart of the city and there was a lot of encroachment. Many politicians were involved because they wanted to grab the land. However, the silver lining was that there were police lines and police officers. I approached them. The buildings were dilapidated and the roofs were not there. Thus, I got an engineer from the PWD and got the buildings assessed to see if they were fit to stay in. They said that they were good but needed to be refurbished. Next, I approached the local mayor and I must compliment her for helping me a great deal towards achieving this gargantuan task. I knocked at every door to accomplish the feat. I worked very hard and that was one of the finest tenures that I had.

There were more than ten thousand cadets and let me tell you that within six months, I could put roofs over those barracks. I could create an infrastructure where six hundred cadets could be accommodated. When my Additional Director General told me that he was coming for a visit, I said that I wanted to have the camp in the new academy which we had started. He said, “I am coming. Are you sure that you will be able to do it?” I retorted, “Yes, sir, definitely. You are most welcome.” And he landed up and he was quite happy at what he saw. Even today, I get a heap of compliments and care from the people of Gwalior. They still remember me.

It was a memorable experience being posted in the Indian Military and advisory team in Bhutan. I was also an advisor on the logistics matters. It is a very beautiful country with a very high Happiness Index. I enjoyed my two years inclusive of my stay in the country. It was really awesome and again, one had very happy memories training the Bhutanese Army. It is rare having that kind of bonding and so many friends in the kingdom of Druk Yul, as Bhutan is also known as the ‘Second Kingdom’.

Brig. Vinod Dutta talking at a national workshop
on earthquake preparedness in India

CC: Do you miss donning the uniform at times?

I always miss donning my uniform. And that’s exactly the reason why I have established Career Navigators, where I am coaching, mentoring and counselling the underprivileged people belonging from the rural areas. When in Gwalior I used to run these classes and I can say with pride that during those two years, almost twelve cadets cleared the SSB and became officers.

CC: Tell us about the coaching academy in Mhow.

I am making it in memory of my father. I have kept the fees very minimal because you have to support the infrastructure and the establishment. And for those who are not unable to afford the fee, it is totally free of cost for them, barring the hostel and the food charges. I have also dedicated a house that was gifted by my father for the hostel. I have converted the house into a hostel. People who come from villages can come and stay on the premises.

CC: What about the lessons learnt in the corporate and a change in the status quo?

Firstly, the corporate boasts of some of the best practices. Secondly, one of the best lessons that I have learnt in the corporate world is that there are no name tabs or there are no tags which people carry. It is the merit that is rewarded. They are just as mission-oriented as in the Army, and this is regardless of whether you are working from home or meeting your clients. They are interested in targets. There are no inhibitions, there is no rigid scalar chain.

The first shock that I got when I landed in corporate was when a young girl addressed me by my first name. I was not prepared for that because one was used to the rigid system in the Army. Initially, I would feel bad being addressed by my first name. But then I realised this has its own set of merits.

Brig. Vinod Dutta holidaying in London with his wife

CC: Please tell us about your family.

I have two sons and my wife is from Delhi. She is an MBA and B.Ed. She has been a principal at a school, and she has also worked for the corporate for a few years. We both are now enjoying our second inning. My elder son, he pursued his PhD from King’s College, London and he has stepped into the shoes of a teacher at the institute as well. He has also been a teacher at IIM-Indore and currently, he is teaching at IIT-Guwahati as an Assistant Professor. The younger son holds a degree in BTech and MBA. He is heading the marketing division in a company which manufactures beer - Kati Patang. He is doing pretty well.

CC: Tell us about your prestigious lineage.

I am a third-generation officer and you know, we hold this Limca Book of Record because all male members from one family are Army officers, all girls are married to Army officers, or the girls are themselves Army officers. That is the singular honour that our family has. And at one point in time, we were almost seventeen officers serving the nation.

CC: What are the three pieces of advice that you would like to give to the military personnel moving into corporate?

They should prepare themselves well because it is not a leisure decision, wherein, they can just decide to join the corporate one fine day. The corporate culture has also undergone a lot of change.

I will divide it into two parts: pre-Covid and post-Covid.

In the pre-Covid era, in the nineties, the corporate had a lot of glow and attraction. Jobs were really highly paid as compared to the government jobs.

The downfall started around 2010 or so. And it was around this time that the pay packages started shrinking. Numbers also started shrinking. Today, people prefer government jobs as compared to corporate jobs because the perks and privileges have shrunk and the working hours have become very long. So, I would suggest that you prepare yourself mentally and academically for what lies ahead. I would also like to add that the Army gives you ample opportunities in terms of study leave etc.

You also have to have an attitudinal makeover because you have to be flexible. In fact, firm yet flexible. You have to be aloof yet approachable. You have to put up a front where you mean business yet people should not be scared to approach you and discuss problems. Also, the earlier you leave, the better it is since it allows you to settle down.